Re: Aries blog?

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Re: Aries blog?

kevan

On Oct 9, 2009, at 7:19 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 12:08 PM, zoe <[hidden email]>  
> wrote:
>> Bertrand wrote:
>>> ...If that's the case, I strongly recommend having it at
>>> http://blogs.apache.org/aries - this will make it more visible
>>> alongside other Apache blogs, and should help make it a group  
>>> effort.
>>> Adding it to http://planet.apache.org/ as well is certainly a good
>>> idea.
>>>
>>
>> ...There is no Apache policy that I can find that mandates the use  
>> of Apache
>> blogs, so, given the precedent already set by Tuscany and Synapse,  
>> and for
>> the reasons I have stated above, I would still prefer to use  
>> Blogger....
>
> Although I still think running a project blog outside of ASF
> infrastructure is suboptimal, I'm not opposed to that if the Aries
> community wants it that way - I was just offering my advice as an
> incubation mentor.

Agreed. From an Apache perspective, I'd prefer that blogs.apache.org  
be used for an Aries blog. If the community has reasons for running a  
community blog elsewhere, than that's fine...

--kevan
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Re: Aries blog?

Bertrand Delacretaz
On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Kevan Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 2009, at 7:19 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>> ...Although I still think running a project blog outside of ASF
>> infrastructure is suboptimal, I'm not opposed to that if the Aries
>> community wants it that way - I was just offering my advice as an
>> incubation mentor.
>
> Agreed. From an Apache perspective, I'd prefer that blogs.apache.org be used
> for an Aries blog. If the community has reasons for running a community blog
> elsewhere, than that's fine...

I can't help noticing that most or all -1 (meaning "host at
blogs.apache.org") in the ongoing vote thread come from experienced
Apache committers, and I think that's for a good reason: hosting
things at apache.org, although slightly less convenient in some cases,
gives said things a much better chance of long-term survival.

Not only in terms of technical survival, but more importantly in terms
of community survival.

My 2 (additional ;-) cents.
-Bertrand
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Re: Aries blog?

Alasdair Nottingham
I disagree. The best way to get a successful blog/community is to have
compelling content that people are interested in Reading. Where that
blog is hosted is irrelevant. It needs to be super easy to write blog
posts and I susect the people who have voted +1 are doing so because
they think blogger best serves that purpose.

In this inter connected world where community is commonly spread
between services like blogger, facebook, twitter and so on I do not
understand an argument that says that the community must be on one
domain to succeed.

My additional 2 cents worth :)

Alasdair.

On Tuesday, October 13, 2009, Bertrand Delacretaz
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Kevan Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Oct 9, 2009, at 7:19 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>>> ...Although I still think running a project blog outside of ASF
>>> infrastructure is suboptimal, I'm not opposed to that if the Aries
>>> community wants it that way - I was just offering my advice as an
>>> incubation mentor.
>>
>> Agreed. From an Apache perspective, I'd prefer that blogs.apache.org be used
>> for an Aries blog. If the community has reasons for running a community blog
>> elsewhere, than that's fine...
>
> I can't help noticing that most or all -1 (meaning "host at
> blogs.apache.org") in the ongoing vote thread come from experienced
> Apache committers, and I think that's for a good reason: hosting
> things at apache.org, although slightly less convenient in some cases,
> gives said things a much better chance of long-term survival.
>
> Not only in terms of technical survival, but more importantly in terms
> of community survival.
>
> My 2 (additional ;-) cents.
> -Bertrand
>

--
Alasdair Nottingham
[hidden email]
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Re: Aries blog?

Niclas Hedhman
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 4:42 AM, Alasdair Nottingham
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> In this inter connected world where community is commonly spread
> between services like blogger, facebook, twitter and so on I do not
> understand an argument that says that the community must be on one
> domain to succeed.

What Bertrand is trying to say; BlogSpot may disappear overnight,
which leads to loss of data. We have no guarantees whatsoever that the
content will survive such event. If it is hosted on Apache
infrastructure we are sure that the content will survive as long as
Apache (hence the content) exist and is relevant.

The question would really be; Does it matter if BlogSpot and our blog
disappears? If the answer is "Yes", then Apache infrastructure is the
answer, otherwise "Anywhere" is Ok.

And I don't have a good the answer to that, hence not voting...


Another aspect is the "Eat your own dog food", and that we can very
easily work with both infrastructure and Apache Roller project to get
missing features in.


Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java

I  live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I  work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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Re: Aries blog?

Bertrand Delacretaz
In reply to this post by Alasdair Nottingham
On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Alasdair Nottingham
> ...My additional 2 cents worth :)...

Thanks - enjoying the debate....I guess my point of view is more a
general "let's keep things well centered at Apache" idea, totally
agree about content being king in the case of a blog.

-Bertrand
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Re: Aries blog?

Daniel  Kulp
In reply to this post by Niclas Hedhman

To expand on this...

We don't allow projects to host their code at places like sourceforge or
github or anything.    We don't allow projects to host their web sites off
site at some other location.   Basically, all "official" resources of a
project should exist at Apache.   If the blog is an "official resource", then
it belongs at Apache.

Dan

On Wed October 14 2009 1:13:56 am Niclas Hedhman wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 4:42 AM, Alasdair Nottingham
>
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > In this inter connected world where community is commonly spread
> > between services like blogger, facebook, twitter and so on I do not
> > understand an argument that says that the community must be on one
> > domain to succeed.
>
> What Bertrand is trying to say; BlogSpot may disappear overnight,
> which leads to loss of data. We have no guarantees whatsoever that the
> content will survive such event. If it is hosted on Apache
> infrastructure we are sure that the content will survive as long as
> Apache (hence the content) exist and is relevant.
>
> The question would really be; Does it matter if BlogSpot and our blog
> disappears? If the answer is "Yes", then Apache infrastructure is the
> answer, otherwise "Anywhere" is Ok.
>
> And I don't have a good the answer to that, hence not voting...
>
>
> Another aspect is the "Eat your own dog food", and that we can very
> easily work with both infrastructure and Apache Roller project to get
> missing features in.
>
>
> Cheers
>

--
Daniel Kulp
[hidden email]
http://www.dankulp.com/blog
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Re: Aries blog?

Jeremy Hughes
2009/10/14 Daniel Kulp <[hidden email]>:
>
> To expand on this...
>
> We don't allow projects to host their code at places like sourceforge or
> github or anything.    We don't allow projects to host their web sites off
> site at some other location.   Basically, all "official" resources of a
> project should exist at Apache.   If the blog is an "official resource", then
> it belongs at Apache.

I'm not sure we need an 'official resource' - although I'm starting to
wonder what the scope of 'official resource' is. A blog on blogspot
would do fine. As Zoe points out, Tuscany have a blog hosted on
blogspot, Synapse is another. I'm not aware of an ASF policy requiring
project blogs to be hosted on apache.org, so I don't think we should
discount blogspot as an option.

Jeremy
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Re: Aries blog?

Luciano Resende
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Jeremy Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2009/10/14 Daniel Kulp <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> To expand on this...
>>
>> We don't allow projects to host their code at places like sourceforge or
>> github or anything.    We don't allow projects to host their web sites off
>> site at some other location.   Basically, all "official" resources of a
>> project should exist at Apache.   If the blog is an "official resource", then
>> it belongs at Apache.
>
> I'm not sure we need an 'official resource' - although I'm starting to
> wonder what the scope of 'official resource' is. A blog on blogspot
> would do fine. As Zoe points out, Tuscany have a blog hosted on
> blogspot, Synapse is another. I'm not aware of an ASF policy requiring
> project blogs to be hosted on apache.org, so I don't think we should
> discount blogspot as an option.
>
> Jeremy
>

Tuscany blog is hosted outside Apache mainly because when we created
the blog there was no "Apache Blog infrastructure" available.

--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
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Re: Aries blog?

Jeremy Hughes
2009/10/14 Luciano Resende <[hidden email]>:
>
> Tuscany blog is hosted outside Apache mainly because when we created
> the blog there was no "Apache Blog infrastructure" available.

OK, that's fair enough, and that may well be the case with Synapse
too, but does the presence of blogs.apache.org remove a choice from
the Aries community? I see nothing to indicate that.

Jeremy
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Re: Aries blog?

Guillaume Nodet
I don't think anybody said it it was not allowed to have a blog
oustide of the apache infra.
People who have voted -1 mostly think that it would be *better* to
host it in the apache infra.
If the -1 seems like a veto (which it's not in this case), that's
because of the way the vote has been worded.

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 18:10, Jeremy Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2009/10/14 Luciano Resende <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> Tuscany blog is hosted outside Apache mainly because when we created
>> the blog there was no "Apache Blog infrastructure" available.
>
> OK, that's fair enough, and that may well be the case with Synapse
> too, but does the presence of blogs.apache.org remove a choice from
> the Aries community? I see nothing to indicate that.
>
> Jeremy
>



--
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
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Re: Aries blog?

Jeremy Hughes
2009/10/15 Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]>:
> I don't think anybody said it it was not allowed to have a blog
> oustide of the apache infra.

Ah good that's what I had thought.

Jeremy